JK 3968 
.J69 
1829 


X, . 

A* 


o «.> ^ 


cv * 



o. 


; vv^ :»M 0 , ^pv 

* ^ • foPrqprrz 4 av *5 

« <y ^ */W»i . * 


’% '• 

'V "♦/J 7 T*’ A <. '•. 7 *' ,G V "o, *^T 7 T»’ A 

" • * ^o Ar • *■ ‘ * * .Or c°" •-» **o A • *'* 

' ° A *Ta « c .•aSnW- ° A ♦’ 

- ^v-» +t. n t . 





v*^ 

°o ‘‘TA' A° %/.. .. 

> v* .>_•*. ^ ^p~.» lVw'» > 


• f. A®’ *• 

. «* rv * 1 


a * 

;* V V* - 



* A ^r. 

* <•/ °b> 

» ys & + 4X V ci. »• ^WibJiSr ■* V >•' • ^ „ 

<b '<>.»* A 0 a> A <\ '*•** ,6 

>■ * * * ^ c 0 " 0 ♦ c? „A * *•' • * <$*>> O’ c °" * 

■ ■* Vy. C •jfSfftSwfc** o Sae/t??^? - V C • 

- * *ACv\\\- Al JPfU//yTZ^ „ ^ A « 

^ *>CT °< 



> l» 0 ° 

V » ’ • ° 

' 

. a A 

1 " ® ♦ *" O «G , K > • <P 

* O A . v ^«,/r> 2 -^ ■» *C 




®* *•■ ’•’ A <V*.t:•’ y °° ‘*rr, 

*UsL?* ^ v c\ 

o - 

t ^ V 




,0 

" 1 ' 1 ^ ° \b °*p. * • •'* ^ 'A, ' , oi« 

. ^ ^ ’* V ^ - -. # ^ jl A ^ ^ _i*w <* ^r 

.‘^5^'. t,. .A V /?r .'#®b*r. « 


<* \ 
: vv 

- V' ^ <j? 




o A ^ 

»*°° ^ ^° ; ^ o *.-,•, 

A' * <s'. A ° b p A t ^Stejfc^a %<' c 

v 4WA; Vv *^M|^ 0 ^vP<p 

* A’b- owlw * > s^j|«|||i2l<7 * v V^* 

* <\y ^ ovJr\k* <t? * ^y < 





" ° ♦ a,^ **'*-* ^ o^ c °" * -* ^b A^ , v»• 

- »•„ A 0 < :’ ,< ^^Sl*. ”b v 5, 

• ^ ^ $ '% 

’”' ° 4 - *•>’*’ a 0 ' V'*... 

0 $ • • * j > f • o f~\ f\’ » • • . 

. ' _.yw, ♦ <r V t . *V I 

^ ‘ ‘ -' - ,R " :. V 

w •mm'M 






%. *•.»’ <y % -•>’• a 0 V 

v c\ .0 .vVl'. *> v *: 

• >£* A V * rfvVSg /K * *$> A v * 

• c^^rv ^ ° * o Vyfi$<V^ * <V> ^ 

. „ „ ,♦ ,v> -V *.%SkK‘ % •’#!■ .v’ T • 

.Cr V *- .Vi* A <*'<>•»* A Cr *' 

*^o» ?4tiiB*. ~o& :£mt*‘ ■W ■> 



• i *« 






,*\. 


a* ,v 


o 5 °x> >° T ^ -«■ 

,r o O o 'V vfsss^.’ A 

o, .9 »‘V % T> v * 1 * °, Q> 

,jaVa -* *“ ^ A ’* Vv . \>v .« 

. a >*=7 *o£f 

, - >.- . s ». -* .-wnjjr,* v <*■ °y 

- ^T* A .6* ss. *7^37* A if, '■ 

1 * & • 1 1 * ♦ <$V fr 6 ° ♦ ^O .A # 1 ' * * 

A * <P* • vxl A K . *1 


'K 


by 



» » ° ° A 
**v> ^ v * 

' ^MiSrK. «■>,£*«,* 

* ^ A v 

: 

* « 5 > ^rv ■* 

* v ^ • 




o * 

* « , i ' a v <5^, 

« • 0 *K-^ cy » * * /. A 

° ^rs & * * (A 

• °j>v »< ^Pfe >/ vv 

• a v- ^<. 'W®*; '.e 

,* v > -y ^% x> 7 ^ ‘.\ 



Os* 


'o.»-" ^ ^ *'TTT % ’ A 

-t, 0 ° •jsstvl', o> ,V^- ^ 

:*«K’ -W 

■?5 °iO ~£§jm§^ i° ■’■* *,^^^’.°" k<- H ^ - ^/nw , r, 

y %'?%?''?> \ / %.‘ y --’/ 

♦- »* ••<Sfe-- ♦- 1» ->v* \,/ /< 

■ ^ v -v ’ ‘* " * 




C,- 

• °V«. S 







'• < A <* v 0 

* V 0 *^sS 5 \YhV- ° 

*- -W •*^SI»* 

1 %;^*y V^V' 'V 1 ^* y 

,»• • ^ V " •* * • ®* c>. <9^ * ^ V « 

% •«*' :| 

, wm : ( /\ p/\W /\*^ 

'o• * 4 ,o ♦/tTT* a ^ 0,4 a° °^> 

c, • _r^vTv^ # ^J) u’®’ 0 ♦ O 



^ 4 *^ ** 

o V 


A <b 


' rs <' 

■Pp v 


VP. 


••.•• AF 

«• vy///i/< 

O 

. %.*'”' 

v O 

• °- c\ 

V *♦ ^ 

Xti fW.* '^V 

a^ - . 

, 9 vP 






































r 


















SPEECH 




& • i 

* \ 

turns m* wvsraa* &&<&» 


AS DELIVERED IN 


THE CONVENTION OF VIRGINIA, 


ON 


THURSDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 1829, 


Upon the subject of the Basis of Representation. 


SECOND EDITION. 


RICHMOND: 

PRINTED BY T. W. WHITE. 






A'\£ ? ? 


DC ? 3 The Statistical views contained in the following Spee< 
and their bearing on the whole Eastern part of Virginia, ; 
exhibited by Mr. Joynes, were deemed so important, thi 
several Eastern Members of the Convention united in reques 
ing that the Speech should be published in pamphlet forn 
It may be proper also to state, that as it now appears, it ha 
the advantage of having been carefully examined and coi 
reeled by Mr* J> 



©MS 


OF 

THOMAS H. JOYNES, ESQ. 

Upon the subject of the Basis of Representation , 


The first resolution reported to the Convention by the Le¬ 
gislative Committee on the 24th of October, 1829, is in these 
words:— 

“ Resolved , That in the apportionment of representation 
* l in the House of Delegates, regard should be had to the 
“ white population exclusively.” 

Mr. GREEN (of Culpeper) moved to amend the report of 
the Legislative Committee by striking out the word “ exclu¬ 
sively” and inserting in lieu thereof, the words “ and taxa¬ 
tion combined 

If Mr. Green’s proposed amendment be adopted, then the 
resolution will read thus: 

“ Resolved , That in the apportionment of representation 
in the House of Delegates, regard should be had to the white 
population and taxation combined.” 

The resolution of the Legislative Committee, and the pro¬ 
posed amendment thereto, being under consideration in Com¬ 
mittee of the Whole, 

Mr. JOYNES rose and addressed the Committee, in sub¬ 
stance, nearly as follows: 

Mr. Chairman, —The subject now under the considera¬ 
tion of the Committee, is one of great importance to the fu¬ 
ture happiness and prosperity of Virginia; and I have to ask 
the attention of the Committee, for a short time, while I pre¬ 
sent to the Committee the views I have taken of this subject. 
In doing this, I shall not indulge the expectation that any 
thing that I can say will change the vote of any member of 
this Committee. Every gentleman in this Convention has, 
no doubt, maturely considered the subject, and honestly made 
up his opinion;—and, if the able and eloquent arguments which 
have already been addressed to the Committee, have been in¬ 
sufficient to change the opinions of gentlemen, I have not the 
vanity to suppose that any thing which I may say, would ha^e 


4 


that effect. This subject is interesting to the whole Slate 
and particularly to that portion of it in which I live; and if 
I were to permit this question to be decided without express¬ 
ing the opinions 1 entertain, and the reasons on which these 
opinions are founded, I should be wanting in duty to myselt 
and to those who sent me here. 

When I was elected a member of this Convention, Mr. 
Chairman, I endeavoured to persuade myself, that while it 
was my duty, in concert with my colleagues, to watch over 
and protect, so far as I could, the particular interests of my 
constituents, yet that I was a representative, in some degree, 
of the whole people of Virginia, and bound to consult the 
interests of the whole community. I came here, sir, actua¬ 
ted by a spirit of compromise toward other members of this 
Convention. I came here, prepared to reconcile, far as 
was practicable, by mutual concessions, all sectional and con¬ 
flicting interests, and to agree in the adoption of such a Con¬ 
stitution as we might reasonably hope would permanently 
promote the interest and happiness of Virginia. It was idle 
for any man to calculate that every measure was to be adopt¬ 
ed precisely according to his wishes. It is by mutual con¬ 
cessions alone, that any beneficial results can be expected to 
arise from our labours. There was no subject which it was 
probable could come before the Convention, on which I felt 
more strongly actuated by a wish for mutual concession than 
on that now under the consideration of the Committee;—and 
1 was gratified the other day, when my friend from Fauquier 
(Mr. Scott), proposed an amendment to the amendment pro¬ 
posed by the gentleman from Culpeper (Mr. Green), which 
would afford me an opportunity of manifesting, by my vote, 
that I was really disposed to compromise this interesting sub¬ 
ject; and I regret that a majority of the Committee entertain¬ 
ed different views from me relative to that amendment. 

We have been told in the course of this debate by the gen¬ 
tleman from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon), that the amendment 
proposed by the gentleman from Culpeper (Mr. Green), was 
incompatible with the extension of the right of suffrage.— 
The right of suffrage, Mr. Chairman, is not by any means 
involved in this question, nor have they any necessary con¬ 
nexion. The question here is not, to whom the right of suf¬ 
frage shall be granted, but in what proportions shall the po¬ 
litical power of the Commonwealth be distributed amongst 
the different sections of the State: whether it shall be distri¬ 
buted, having reference to white population alone, by which 
those portions of the State which pay less than one-fourth of 


5 


the whole revenue of the Commonwealth, shall have the intire 
control of the legislative power; or shall it be so distributed, 
that those who are compelled to pay more than three-fourths 
of the revenue, shall have it in their power to protect them¬ 
selves from improper taxation. I am in favour of the exten¬ 
sion of the right of suffrage as far, perhaps, as any man in 
this Convention; and much farther, I dare say, than I shall 
be sustained by the votes of a majority of the Convention. 
I am willing to extend it to all free white male citizens of 
this State upwards of 21 years of age who have committed no 
crimes against the State, and who actually pay taxes to the 
State or County—whether they be freeholders or not. And, 

I would allow to the poorest man who went to the polls, pre¬ 
cisely the same vote, that 1 would allow to his wealthy neigh¬ 
bour who might be the master of five hundred slaves. 

I shall not pretend to question the correctness of the gene¬ 
ral rule, that the majority should govern; and a majority of 
persons in general furnishes the best evidence of a majority 
of interests. Since the eloquent argument of my colleague 
from Northampton (Judge Upshur), most of the gentlemen 
who have engaged in this debate on the other side, have 
placed this question on the ground of expediency alone. One 
of the greatest errors which can be committed in the science 
of government, it appears to me is, to lay down certain gen¬ 
eral fundamental principles, and, like the bed of Procrustes, 
compel every community to conform to them, without regard 
to circumstances. A Constitution, to be of any value, must 
be adapted to the particular circumstances and situation of 
the country for which it is intended. That government which 
would be best for one country might be worst for another. 
Every man in this Convention; nay, every man, I am sure, 
in America, would unite in saying, that a Republican form of 
government was best adapted to the situation of the people of 
the United States and to the individual States: but he would 
be an unwise politician indeed, who would attempt at this 
day to establish a Republic in Russia or Turkey; and hu¬ 
manity has had to mourn over the unsuccessful efforts to es¬ 
tablish a Republic in France; and, from recent indications, we 
have too much reason to apprehend that Republican govern¬ 
ment is not suited to the late Spanish possessions on this Con¬ 
tinent. The only question that a wise statesman should ask 
is, whether the measure proposed, is best calculated to pro¬ 
mote the liberty, interests and happiness of the people on 
whom it is intended to operate as they really are; and not, 
whether the measure conforms to certain rules of theoretical 



6 


perfection , and would be best adapted to a people such as he 
would have them to be. If this were a question between the 
protection of personal rights on the one hand, and property 
on the other, and it was impossible to reconcile the two, I 
should not hesitate in giving the preference to the protection 
of personal rights; but I humbly conceive, that there is no in¬ 
compatibility in the protection of the two. Property asks 
not for a sword to enable it to do injury to others: it only 
asks for a shield to protect it from injury. 

This question has been discussed, Mr. Chairman, by most 
of the gentlemen on one side, and by all on the other, as if the 
only object was the protection of the slave property of East¬ 
ern Virginia from oppressive taxation. And the gentleman 
from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon), has said, that no*gentleman 
on the other side has advocated the amendment to the report 
of the Legislative Committee on any other ground. For my¬ 
self, sir, I have no hesitation in saying, that if there were not 
a slave in Virginia, or if, by the unanimous consent of the 
Convention, a clause were inserted in the Constitution ex¬ 
empting them forever from taxation, I should still think the 
amendment ought to prevail. The power of imposing taxes 
upon a community, whereby the government can at pleasure 
withdraw from every individual any portion of his hard earn¬ 
ed property, is one of the most important powers which can 
be conferred by the people, in their sovereign character, upon 
their government. And, it is of the utmost importance, that 
that responsibility of public functionaries to the people for 
the faithful discharge of their duties, which is the life and se¬ 
curity of representative government, should be preserved in 
the fullest and most perfect degree, with respect to the power 
of laying taxes,—and this responsibility never can exist in a 
proper degree, unless those who have the power of laying 
the taxes are directly responsible to those who are compelled 
to pay them. If the report of the Legislative Committee be 
adopted by the Convention, then those who pay less than one- 
fourth of the taxes of the State would iiave the power of im¬ 
posing taxes on the residue of the State; and the majority, 
who imposed the taxes, would be subject to no kind of re¬ 
sponsibility to those who were compelled to pay the greater 
part of the taxes. 

The wealth of a country, Mr. Chairman, depends upon the 
productive industry of that country; and whether these pro¬ 
ductions arise from the labour of freemen, or of slaves, 
they add equally to the wealth of the community at large.— 
The tobacco of Virginia, the cotton and rice of the Carolina* 


7 


and Georgia, and the sugar of Louisiana, add as much to the 
wealth of the nation as if they were the produce of the labour 
of free white men. Yet, I am still unwilling to place the slave 
labourer, on an equality with the white man : There are pre¬ 
judices on this subject, arising from a difference in colour, and 
various other considerations, which are insuperable: These 
prejudices 1 feel as strongly as any man in the West; and, if 
the question now under consideration was, whether, in an ap¬ 
portionment of representation having reference to numbers, 
and to no other consideration , slaves should be included, I 
should feel no hesitation in saying that I would not include 
slaves in the enumeration. 

Although the protection of slave property from the danger 
of unjust and oppressive taxation, be not the only object of 
the proposed amendment to the Report of the Legislative 
Committee, yet the large portion of slaves held in Eastern 
Virginia, and the comparatively small number held in the 
Western part of the State, deserves serious consideration in de¬ 
ciding upon the subject.—The slave tax is about 30 per cent 
of the whole revenue of the State: they constitute one third of 
the whole property of the State, and more than one half of 
the property of that part of Virginia lying to the East of the 
Blue Ridge of mountains. We have been told by the two 
gentlemen from Frederick (Mr. Cooke and Mr. Poweli); by 
the gentleman from Brooke (?vlr. Campbell); by the gentle¬ 
man from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon); and by the gentleman 
from Loudoun (Mr. Mercer), that if the white basis of repre¬ 
sentation be adopted, still the slave-holding interest would be 
protected—because, they say, there are a great many slaves in 
the Valley, where they are generally distributed amongst the 
people: and several of these gentlemen referred particularly to 
four counties in the Valley, which they say contain great num¬ 
bers of slaves, and that the white population of these four 
counties added to the white population of the country East of 
the Blue Ridge, would make a white population of 400,000, 
who have peculiarly a slave interest; and the balance of the 
white population being only 280,000, the slave-holding inter¬ 
est would have a large majority, and would always have a 
majority. The respectability of these gentlemen repudiates 
the idea that they intended to deceive the Convention; and 
their splendid talents added to their weight of character, gives 
an imposing authority to every statement they make; but I 
think, Sir, it can be very easily shown, that these gentlemen 
are intirely mistaken in their calculations. The slaves consti¬ 
tute 38 per cent of the. whole population of the State;—and no 





8 


county having less Ilian 38 per cent of slave population, can have 
such a controlling slave interest, as would induce it to unite with 
the slave-holding interest in other parts of the State, in resist¬ 
ing attempts to burthen that species of property with excessive 
taxes, for the relief of other property from taxation. To illus¬ 
trate my idea, I will suppose that the taxes of the State are 
so arranged that, one half arises from land, and the other half 
from slaves: If these slaves be distributed in equal propor¬ 
tions, according to white population, amongst the several 
counties of the Stale, and it should become necessary to in¬ 
crease the taxes of the State, it would be immaterial, so far 
as intire counties were concerned, whether the increased taxa¬ 
tion be imposed on land or slaves: But if the slaves, instead 
of being distributed equally amongst all the courrties, should 
be so distributed, that one half of the counties contained 
three fourths of the slaves, and the remaining half contained 
only one fourth; and it should become necessary to increase 
the taxes, is it not perfectly manifest that those counties con¬ 
taining only one fourth of the slaves would be interested to 
impose all the taxes on slaves, to the exclusion of land? There 
cannot be a doubt on the subject. The slaves West of the 
Alleghany are 8 2-3 per cent of the whole population West of 
those mountains; in the Valley the slaves are 17 per cent of the 
whole population; and in the country East of the Blue Ridge 
the slaves exceed the whites. 

But, Mr. Chairman, we have been told that four counties 
of the Valley, particularly, have a slave interest, which will in¬ 
duce them to unite with the slave-holders of the East in the 
protection of that kind of property. Let us examine whether 
these four Valley counties to which the people of the East have 
been asked to commit the guardianship of their slave pro¬ 
perty, have such a common interest in the subject as will ren¬ 
der it prudent for the slave-holders of the East to choose them 
as guardians of that kind of property. If they have not such 
interest, Mr. Speaker, prudence would forbid their being se¬ 
lected as guardians. Let us say what we will of the virtue 
and integrity of man, the best security that can be had for 
another man’s honesty is, to place him in a situation where it 
is his own interest to be honest. “Lead us not into tempta¬ 
tion,” are the words of the Saviour himself. 

The four Valley counties to which gentlemen allude, are, no 
doubt, Frederick, Augusta, Botetourt and Jefferson. These 
counties contain together 20,534 slaves, and 50,241 free 
whites; the slaves being 27 per cent of the whole population. 
These counties pay §16,630 55 cts. of the land tax, which is 


9 


equal to 9 47-100 {xj per cent of the whole land tax, and they 
pay $4,935 of the slave tax, which is equal to 4 3-10>^ per 
cent of the whole slave tax. Suppose there was a proposition be¬ 
fore the Legislature, to raise for the exigencies of the State, an 
additional sum of $100,000 by taxation, and a member from 
the West should propose to raise this additional sum by a tax 
exclusively upon slaves : and a member from the East pro¬ 
posed to raise it intirely by a tax on land, how would these 
four guardian counties vote? If the additional tax be raised 
on land, these four counties would pay $9,474: and if it be 
raised on slaves, they would pay only $4,305. If they were 
actuated by that great spring of human action—self-interest, 
they are interested more than two to one, to impose the additi¬ 
onal tax intirely upon slaves.—If they w r ere governed by inter¬ 
est alone, they would make bad guardians, and I fear the 
East would share the fate of too many wards. 

The gentleman from Brooke (Mr. Campbell'), and the gen¬ 
tleman from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon), have tola us, no doubt 
to allay the apprehensions of the East, that if representation 
be apportioned according to white population alone, the West 
would lose representation in comparison with the present ap¬ 
portionment, and the gain would be in the slave districts. In 
order to prove this, they disregard the calculations of the 
Auditor as to the supposed population of 1829, and rely up¬ 
on the census of 1820. And the gentleman from Loudoun, 
(Mr. Mercer), has also told us, that the Auditor has com¬ 
mitted a great mistake in the supposed population of 1829, 
as to that county ; and he, therefore, has no confidence in the 
Auditor’s calculations, but prefers to rely on the census of 
1820. The gentlemen who advocate the white basis, do not 
agree in the value they are disposed to place upon the Audi¬ 
tor’s estimate of the population of 1829.1 A gentleman from 
beyond the Alleghany, whose opinions are intitled to great 
weight upon this and all other subjects, (Mr. Doddridge) 
told us, that the Auditor’s calculations did not give to the 
country beyond the Alleghany, a greater increase of white 
population than it was really intitled to ; and I know that 
other gentlemen entertained the same opinion. In fact, the 
gentleman from Brooke (Mr. Doddridge), in his speech the 
other day, rather vauntingly, said, that in thirty years the 
majority of the white population of the whole State would 
be West of the Alleghany Mountains: And he referred to 
the Auditor’s estimate of the population of 1829 in support 
of that assertion.—And he told us, too, that the white popu¬ 
lation beyond the Blue Ridge, would continue to increase 


until (to use his own language) “the white population Las£ 
“of the Blue Ridge would be but a drop in the bucket, to 
“that of the West.” The Auditor’s estimate of the popula¬ 
tion of 1829, although called for on my motion, was called 
for on the suggestion of another gentleman from the West of 
the Alleghany, who was a good Judge of the subject, and 
after the Auditor had satisfied that gentleman and myself that, 
from the documents in his office, he could be enabled, with 
tolerable accuracy, to estimate the population of 1829. I 
cannot consent to allow gentlemen the advantage in argu¬ 
ment of relying, on the correctness of the Auditor’s statement 
one day, and then, when it suits their argument on another 
day, to tell us that no confidence should be placed in that es¬ 
timate, and that the census of 1820 should alone fie relied on. 
If we were now about fixing the representation according to 
the white population, and which was to remain unchanged for 
ten years to come, would gentlemen then be content to rely 
on the census of 1820? I presume we should then be told 
again that the Auditor’s estimate was correct and ought to be 
relied on. I have but little doubt that the Auditor’s estimate 
of the population of 1829 is very nearly correct, and I shall 
not hesitate to assume it as the basis of my calculations,—and 
let us see upon that estimate how the representation would 
stand in comparison with the present apportionment of repre¬ 
sentation. According to the Auditor’s estimate, the whole 
white population of the State in 1829, is 682,261.—If this 
number be divided by 120 (which is the number of dele¬ 
gates recommended by the Legislative Committee), we shall 
find that 5,685 are the number of free whites necessary to 
furnish one delegate. On this estimate, the country West of 
the Alleghany (containing twenty-six counties) would be in- 
titled to thirty-two delegates,—the Valley(containing fourteen 
counties) to 24 1-3,—-the country from the Blue Ridge to the 
head of Tide (containing twenty-nine counties) to 342-3: and 
from the head of Tide to the Sea Coast (containing thirty-six 
counties and four towns intitled to representation) to 29 de¬ 
legates. If the number of delegates were reduced to 12Q* 
and distributed in proportion to the present distribution,. the 
result would be that the first District would be intitled to 29 
delegates,—the second District to 16,—the third District to 
32 1-2,—and the fourth to 42 1-2 delegates. So that, on the 
basis of white population, in comparison witlx the present ap¬ 
portionment, the different Districts would.stand thus : 

The 1st District would gain 3 members. 

The 2nd District would gain 8 1-3 members. 


The 3rd District would gain 2 members,. 

The 4th District would lose 13 1-3 members. 

So that the 3rd and 4th Districts, which are slave-holding 
Districts, would lose 11 1-3 members; and the two Western 
Districts would gain 11 1-3 members. 

The gentleman from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon) has told us, 
that the Valley and the middle country, which he calls the 
“heart of the State,” have a majority of white population and 
pay a majority of taxes, and ought to have a majority of Dele¬ 
gates ; whereas, at present they have only 86 Delegates out of 
214. I agree that these two districts ought to have a majority; 
and let us see how they will stand on the w hite basis and on the 
compound basis of representation. That gentleman, to insure 
the majority of Delegates to the “ heart of the State,” again 
refers to the census of 1820; whereas, by the census of 1829, 
which I have endeavoured to show ought to be relied upon, on 
the basis of white population, they would have only 69, out 
of 120 Delegates; and these two Districts, on the white basis, 
never can have a majority, because the white population West 
of the Alleghany, increases much faster than in the Valley ; 
and in the other two Districts there is very little increase. 
The present white population of the second and third Districts 
together is 335,364, and the first and fourth Districts together 
have a white population of 346,907. It is only on the combined 
basis of population and taxation, that the second and third 
Districts can have that majority which the gentleman from 
Albemarle, so ardently desires they should have. On the 
combined basis, the first District would have 21 Delegates: 
the second District 21 : the third District 41: and the fourth 
District 37; and the second and third Districts, “the heart of 
the State,” would have, together, 62 Delegates; instead of 59 
on the white basis. 

The gentleman from Albemarle (Mr. Gordon), and the 
gentleman from Loudoun (Mr. Mercer) have also told the 
Committee, that if representation be apportioned according 
to white population alone, there would still be a considerable 
majority of Delegates East of the Blue Ridge. The first 
gentleman says the majority would be 19, and the other 
says it would be 20. Here again the gentlemen are compel¬ 
led to resort to the census of 1820, to sustain their positions. 
If, in argument, you will grant gentlemen their premises, it 
is very easy to prove any thing they wish; but I must again 
insist on holding gentlemen to the Auditor’s estimate of the 
population of 1829. I cannot consent that they should adopt 
it when it suits them, and abandon it when it makes against 
them. Why, Mr. Chairman, should we talk about the census 




12 


of 1820, when it is manifest that no apportionment of repre¬ 
sentation under the new Constitution which may be recom¬ 
mended by this Convention to the people, ever can be made 
under that"census? The Delegates in 1830 are to be elected 
under the old Constitution, and in 1830 a new census will be 
taken under the authority of the General Government, and 
the first apportionment of Delegates that can ever take place 
under the new Constitution will be conformable to the census 
of 1830. 

The gentleman from Loudoun (Mr. Mercer) has told the 
Committee, that there would not be a majority of white popula¬ 
tion West of the Blue Ridge before 1850; and that the transfer 
of political power to the West would be gradual. This informa¬ 
tion is no doubt kindly intended by that gentleman,'to allay the 
apprehensions of the East. While 1 may be disposed to admire 
the philanthropy which prompts the information, I cannot ad¬ 
mit the premises necessary to enable the gentleman to prove his 
position. Here again, he refers to the census of 1S20. Ac¬ 
cording to the Auditor’s “census,” the white population West 
of the Blue Ridge, is now 319,516; and on the East of the 
Ridge 362,745. If the white population continue to increase 
in the same ratio as it has increased since 1820, then in 1835, 
the white population West of the Blue Ridge will be 375,3M); 
and East of the Blue Ridge 372,293, being a majority of 
3,017 West of the Blue Ridge. I acknowledge, Mr. Chair¬ 
man, that on this subject I have heretofore been mistaken, 
and, possibly, I may have induced some others to adopt my 
errors. 1 did not suppose, until I saw the Auditor’s estimate, 
that the majority of white population would be West of the 
Blue Ridge so early as 1835. 

I have said, Mr. Chairman, that if there were no slaves in 
the State, or if by unanimous consent they were to be forever 
exempted from taxation, I should still vote for the amendment 
under consideration. Those who have the power of laying 
the taxes, ought to be directly responsible to those who are 
compelled to pay them—not merely in name, but in fact. If 
the Report ol the Legislative Committee be adopted, then 
taxes to any amount may be imposed, contrary to the unani¬ 
mous wishes of those who pay three fourths of the taxes, and 
imposed by agents who owe no responsibility, express or im¬ 
plied, to those who are compelled to pay the greater portion 
of these taxes. Like the gentleman from Hanover (Mr. 
Morris), I can imagine no despotism more oppressive than 
that which gives to one man the power of laying taxes, and 
imposes the duty of paying the taxes on those who have no 


13 


control over laying them. Why is it, Sir, that the Constitu¬ 
tion of the United States, and of all the several, States, give 
the power of originating laws imposing taxes, to the most 
numerous branch of the respective Legislatures? It is be¬ 
cause tlie most numerous branches of the Legislature are 
more immediately the representatives of the people; they are 
elected for shorter periods, and are compelled more speedily 
to return to the people and give an account of their steward¬ 
ship. Those who pay the taxes ought to have complete con¬ 
trol over those who have the power of laying the taxes; 
otherwise the taxes, which in a free government should be 
considered as the voluntary contributions of the citizen for 
the services of the State, would be, in fact, arbitrary exactions 
made by irresponsible agents. If the amendment to the Report 
of the Legislative Committee be adopted, this salutary and 
necessary control w ill be preserved ; but if the amendment be 
rejected, then taxes may be laid by those w ho are not respon¬ 
sible to those who are compelled to pay them. 

Let us see, Mr. Chairman, what has been done by other 
States in this Union, in fixing the basis of representation in 
their respective Legislatures. VVe have been told in the pro¬ 
gress of this debate, that fifteen States of this Union have 
adopted the white basis, without regard to any other consi¬ 
deration; and we have been urged to follow their example. 
Here again, I am sure that the honourable gentlemen who 
have made this assertion had no intention to deceive the Com¬ 
mittee; but I am equally certain that they have reckoned 
without their hosts. Instead of fifteen States having adopted 
the w hite basis, unqualified , there are but six who have adopted 
that basis without modification. And of these six, neither of 
them are of the Old Thirteen States of this Union—and four of 
them are States created within the last few years. The only 
States which have adopted this basis, unqualified , are Ken¬ 
tucky, Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Mississippi and Alabama. I 
must beg the indulgence of the Committee while I refer to 
the Constitutions of the other States, particularly on this sub¬ 
ject. 

In Massachusetts, where they have no slaves, the represen¬ 
tation in the Senate is based intirely on taxation; and in the 
House of Representatives every town having 150 rateable polls 
is intitled to one representative; and every town having 375, 
is intitled to two representatives. 

In Maine, every town containing 1,500 inhabitants is in- 
titled to one representative—and so on, increasing until a 
tow n has 20,250 inhabitants, when it shall be intitled to se- 



14 


ven representatives; and no town shall ever have more than se¬ 
ven representatives. 

In New Hampshire, the representation in the Senate is 
based on taxation alone. In the House of Representatives, 
a town having 150 rateable polls is intitled to one represen¬ 
tative, and a town having 450 is intitled to two. 

In Vermont, towns containing 80 taxable inhabitants are 
intitled to two representatives; and all others, without regard 
to population, are intitled to «one. 

In Connecticut, (that land of steady habits, to which the 
gentleman from Loudoun wished be could transport all the 
members of this Convention, to witness the beneficial results 
of her wise institutions) each new town, without regard to po¬ 
pulation, is intitled to one representative. 

In N ew York and Pennsylvania (so often referred to in a 
commendatory manner in this debate,) each county, however 
small the population, is intitled to one representative, and 
the larger counties to more than one—according to popula¬ 
tion in the one and taxable inhabitants in the other State. 
When the gentleman from Loudoun to-day was reading parts 
of the Constitutions of different States, he read that part of 
the Constitution of Pennsylvania which directed that repre¬ 
sentation should be apportioned according to taxable inhabi¬ 
tants ; and the very next sentence after that read by the gen- 
deman, commenced with these words, “Every county shall 
have at least one representative,” &c. I am sure the omis¬ 
sion of the gentleman to read that clause was intirely acci¬ 
dental: I know him to be too honourable to wish to impose 
upon the committee. In New-Jersey, Delaware, Maryland, 
and North-Carolina, the representation in both Houses is ap¬ 
portioned by counties, without regard to numbers; and in 
Virginia, the House of Delegates is apportioned by counties, 
and the Senate according to white population. In South-Ca- 
irolina, the representation in both Houses is apportioned ac¬ 
cording to population and taxation combined; but every dis¬ 
trict shall have one, whatever may be the population and tax¬ 
ation. In Georgia, the Senate is equally apportioned amongst 
the counties, without regard to population; and the House of 
Representatives is apportioned according to federal numbers, 
but subject to this modification, that each county shall have at 
least one and not more than four members; and counties having 
d,000, to have two delegates; 7,000 three; and 12,000 and 
upwards, four delegates. In Tennessee, both Houses are ap¬ 
portioned according to taxable inhabitants, including slaves. 
In Louisiana, the Senatorial districts are to remain forever 


45 


unchanged, without regard to the increase of population.— 
And in Missouri, each county is to have one representative 
at least, and the larger counties more than one, according to 
population. If, Sir, we are to be influenced by the example 
of other States, by which ought we to be influenced; by the 
example of seventeen States, twelve of which are old States, 
some of w hose Constitutions have been tested by the expert 
ence of near half a century? Or, shall we follow the example 
of our younger sisters, some of whom are so young that they 
have not yet had a sufficient opportunity of testing the wis¬ 
dom of their measures? The gentleman from Loudoun (Mr. 
Mercer,) read to the Committee extracts from the Bills of 
Rights, prefixed to the Constitutions of a number of the 
States, to prove the equality of all men, and to convince the 
House that the white basis, without regard to any other con*- 
sideration, ought to be adopted. It is true, that seven of the 
States have Bills of Rights declaring the equality of all men ; 
and that the majority have a right to alter and modify the 
government as they please. Notwithstanding all these Bills 
of Rights, we find the wise men who made these Constitutions, 
like George Mason and his compatriots of 1776 who made 
the Constitution of Virginia, wisely modifying general prin¬ 
ciples, so as to adapt them to the particular situation and cir¬ 
cumstances of their several States; they made the coat to fit 
the man who was to wear is, rather than to make the coat 
without regard to the dimensions of the man, and compel him 
to wear it whether it fits him or not. Thus, Mr. Chairman, 
will all wise lawgivers act. A Constitution, although it may 
be made according to the most approved ideas of theoretical 
perfection, is of but little value, unless it be adapted to the 
circumstances of the country for which it is intended. And* 
eotemporary expositions of the meaning of an instrument 
made by the authors of the instrument themselves, are inti- 
tled to more respect than the most elaborate and ingenious 
essays of subsequent commentators. 

We were told yesterday by the gentleman from Loudoun, 
that for the last seven years, there had been no State tax in 
Massachusetts and New-Hampshire ; and therefore, although 
they had a provision in their Constitutions for basing repre¬ 
sentation in the Senate according to taxation, it had ceased 
to operate in practice, and white population was now alone 
regarded. I am willing to follow' precisely in the footsteps of 
New-Hampshire and Massachusetts on this subject. Let us 
have the power of protecting ourselves from unjust taxes as 
long as it is necessary, and the moment those, into whose 



16 


hands the political power of Virginia seems destined shortly 
to pass, can so wisely manage our concerns as to exempt ns 
from taxation, I for one, am ready to adopt the basis of white 
population alone. Yes, Sir, I am prepared this dav to agree 
to it on these conditions; and on our own principles, if the 
amendment prevails, as soon as we have no taxes to pay, 
white population alone will be regarded. 

In order to show the inequality of taxation, and the neces¬ 
sity that should induce those sections of the State paying the 
greater part of the taxes to adopt the proposed amendment, l 
beg leave to refer to some statements and calculations I have 
made on this subject, founded on the Auditor’s report. The 
whole revenue of the State paid into the public treasury in the 
year 1S28, and arising from taxes on land, slaves, horses, 
carriages and licenses, amounted to $385,429 50. If this 
sum be divided by 682,261, which is the whole number of 
white inhabitants, according to the Auditor’s calculation, it 
will- give 56 cents 5 mills as the average taxes paid by each 
white person in the State. In making this calculation, I have 
excluded free negroes from the estimate of persons paying 
taxes to the State , because I have no doubt of the fact, that 
throughout the State, free negroes contribute very little indeed 
to the public revenue ; so little, as not to affect the accuracy 
of my calculations. The county in which I reside contains, 
unfortunately for us, the one-twentieth part of the whole free 
negroes of the State, and the free negroes of that county do 
not pay $30 of revenue to the Commonwealth; and, from the 
information of other gentlemen, I believe it will be found that 
free negroes are equally worthless throughout the State.— 
If any portions of the State have a more respectable class of 
free negroes than we have, I congratulate them. With us, 
instead of contributing to the wealth or revenue of the State, 
they are perfect nuisances. 

While the average taxation for each white person in the 
State is 56 cents 5 mills, the average paid in the different dis¬ 
tricts is as follows: 

In the first district, (West of the Alleghany) 18 cents 6 mills 

In the second district, (the Valley) 41 cents 2 mills 

The whole country West of the Blue Ridge 

averages 28 cents 4 mills 

In the third district, (from the Blue Ridge to 

tide) 76 cents 2 mills 

In the fourth district, (from the head of tide 

to the sea) 87 cents 2 mills 

The average of the whole country East of 
the Blue Ridge is 


81 cents 2 mills 


17 


There is no subject of taxation on which the West pays as 
much tax per head, according to white population as the East. 
To show this, I must beg the indulgence of the Committee, 
while I refer to another calculation I have made : 

The whole land tax assessed in the State {but not all paid in) 
amounts for each white person to 25 cents 7 mills 

In the first district, for each white person, it 

amounts to 9 cents 2 mills 

In the second district, for each white person, it 

amounts to 24 cents 6 mills 

West of the Blue Ridge, the average is 15 cents 8 mills 
In the third district, for each white person,, it 

amounts to 33 cents 8 mills 

In the fourth district, for each white person, it 

amounts to 34 cents 7 mills 

East of the Blue Ridge, the average is .34 >cents 4 mills 
So that for every dollar of the land tax for eaoh white per¬ 
son paid by the people West of the Blue Ridge, those on the 
East side pay $2 18 cents for each white person. 

The slave tax assessed amounts for each white person in the 
State, to 16 cents 8 mills 

In the first district, it amounts to 2 cents 3 mills 

In the second district, it amounis to .6 cents 2 mills 

West of the Blue Ridge, it averages 4 cents 
In the third district, it amounts to 
In the fourth district, it amounts to 
East of the Ridge, it averages 
♦50 that the whole country East of the Blue Ridge pays, 
on an average, for each white person, a slave tax amounting 
to more than seven times as much as is paid by the whole coun¬ 
try West of the Blue Ridge—and more than twelve times as 
much as the country West of the Alleghany. 

The taxes assessed on horses and carriages amount for each 
white person in the State, to 7 cents 7 mills 

In the first district, it amounts to 5 cents 1 mill 

In the second district, it amounts to 7 cents 4 mills 

West of the Ridge it averages -6 cents 2 mills 

In the third district, it amounts to 9 cents 2 mills 

In the fourth district, it amounts 9 cents 

East of the Ridge, it averages 9 cents 1 mill 

Which is fifty per cent more than the average to the West 
of the Ridge. 

Taxes on Licenses average throughout the State for each 
white person 11 cents 8 mills 

In the first district, the average is 4 cents 7 milk 

3 


28 /cents -5 mills 

27 cents 6 mills 

28 cents 1 mill 


IB 


lu the second district, the average is ? cents 

West of the Blue Ridge, the average is 5 cents 7 mills 
In the third district, the average is 11 tents 2 mills 

In the fourth district, the average is 24 cents 

East of the Ridge, the average is H cents 

Which is more than three times as much as the average to 
the West. 

It thus appears, that on every subject of taxation the coun¬ 
try East of the Ridge pays a great deal more for each white 
person, than is paid to the West. Even of the land tax, the 
poor and worn out country from the head of Tide to the Sea 
Coast—a country which has been settled for two hundred years, 
and has been sulfering under a most injudicious and ruiuons 
system of agriculture, for each white man, the land pays near 
50 per cent more than is paid in that Valley, which we have 
been told, and no doubt correctly, is the finest Valley on the 
. face of the globe. 

But if the slave tax be rejected intirely from the estimate, 
it will be found that of the other taxes assessed, the diflerent 
Districts will stand for each white person thus: The first 
District, 19 cents; the second District, 39 cents; the third 
District, 54 cents 2 mills; the fourth District, 67 cents 7 
mills. The average West of the Ridge, 27 cents 7 mills; 
and the average East of the Ridge, 60 cents 5 mills. It 
thus appears, that for every dollar of taxes (exclusive of slave 
tax) assessed for each white person West of the Alleghany, 
there are about $3 50 cents assessed on each white person in 
the Tide water District—and for every dollar for each white 
person (exclusive of slave tax) assessed on the whole country 
W est of the Blue Ridge, there are $2 18 cents assessed on 
each white person East of the Ridge: And if the slave tax 
be included, it will be found that the disparity is much great¬ 
er. If we examine the amount of taxes paid into the Trea¬ 
sury, from some separate counties, we shall find the inequali¬ 
ty to be still more glaring. In the large counties of Monon¬ 
galia and Harrison, lying to the West of the Alleghany 
Mountains, the average taxation for each white person, is 13 
cents 5 mills. In Powhatan and Nottoway, lying East of 
the Ridge, tiie average of the counties is $ 1 33 cents 2 
mills.* 


* In Grayson county, the averUge taxes paid for each while 
person, is io cents. In Giles , 13 cents; in Lewis , 12 3-4 
cents ; in Preston, 12 cents; in Logan, 9 1-2 cents ; and in 
Nicholas, 8 1-4 cents. 





19 


I will now proceed to examine, Mr. Chairman, how the 
representation on the white basis will stand in comparison 
with the taxes paid in different Districts of country. The 
whole amount of taxes paid into the Public Treasury, per 
Auditor’s statement, amounts to $385,429 50 cents. If this 
sum be divided bv 120 (the number of delegates recommend¬ 
ed by the Legislative Committee) it will give $3,21191 cents 
as the average taxation paid by the constituents of each de¬ 
legate in the State. Instead of the constituents of each de¬ 
legate paying this sum, they will pay as follows, viz: 

In the first district, for each delegate will be paid $ 1,055 32 
In the second district, for each delegate will be paid 2,340 90 
In the third district, for each delegate will be paid 3,954 34 
In the fourth district, for each delegate will be paid 4,980 06 
From this statement it will appear that the constituents of 
each delegate in the Tide Water District, pay nearly five 
times as much taxes, as will be paid by the constituents of 
each delegate West of the Alleghany mountains. I will 
now show how it will stand in regard to some individual coun¬ 
ties. In Monongalia and Harrison together, the white popu¬ 
lation amounts to 26,243, and they together pay taxes to the 
amount of $ 3,553 02. Fora delegate from these counties, 
therefore, their constituents would pay a tax of only $768 7l. # 
In Powhatan and Nottoway together, the white population is 
5,434, and the taxes amount to $ 7,238 51. For a delegate 
from these counties the constituents would pay a tax at the 
rate of $7,572 85. The constituents of a delegate from 
Powhatan and Nottoway would therefore be compelled to 
pay nearly ten times as much as the constituents of each de¬ 
legate from Monongalia and Harrison: and the average 
paid by the constituents of each delegate in the Tide Water 
District, would be near seven times as much as would be paid 
by the constituents of each delegate from Monongalia and 
Harrison. 

In order to render the representative really and effectually 
responsible to the constituents, in the exercise of the impor¬ 
tant power of taxation, there should not be a great disparity 
in the burthens imposed by any proposed system of taxation 
on the aggregate constituents of each delegate : the disparity 
should never be greater than is produced by a combination 
of persons and taxation. But on the white basis, as applied 
to the situation of Virginia, while a member West of the Al- 

* In Nicholas county , the taxes are at the rate of $ 466 for 
e* delegate; in Logan, $ 540; and in Grayson $ 568 50. 




20 


feghany on the principles of taxation heretofore adopted (ancf 
the East cannot have any reason to calculate on any change 
of that system being made beneficial to them) votes to im¬ 
pose a tax of $ 1 on his own constituents, he at the same time 
votes to impose a tax of near $ 5 on each of the constituents 
of every delegate from the Tide Water country; and when 
a delegate from Monongalia or Harrison votes to impose a 
tax of $ 1 on his own constituents, he at the same time, votes 
to impose a tax of near $ 7 on the people of the Tide Water 
country, and near $ 10 on the people of Powhatan and Not¬ 
toway. Under such an inequality of taxation and represen¬ 
tation, the responsibility of the representative to his consti¬ 
tuents, is merely nominal. The gentleman fron^ Albemarle 
(Mr. Gordon), told us the other day, Mr. Chairman, that 
there was a District of country in the neighbourhood of Rich¬ 
mond, having twenty-nine delegates, which did not pay as 
much taxes, and had not as many inhabitants, as another Dis¬ 
trict of country at the foot of the Blue Ridge having only 
ten delegates. This, I admit, as the gentleman tells us, is a 
disease of the body politic, and this the gentleman from Al¬ 
bemarle proposes to cure by the application of the w hite ba- 
* sis, as a panacea: But, I think from the analysis which 1 
have given of the remedy, it will be found that, like many 
quack medicines applied to the human body, it only serves 
to make the patient worse. 

Mr. Chairman,—Although we may talk a great deal about 
our disinterestedness, yet if we will examine ourselves, and 
the suggestions of our own hearts, we shall be very apt to 
find, that self-interest in some degree actuates us even when 
we appear to be the most disinterested and patriotic—and w'e 
are very apt to calculate how particular measures would ope¬ 
rate at home. I confess, Mr. Chairman, I have examined 
what would be the effect of the white basis upon the District 
in which I live: and I dare say, other gentlemen have made 
similar calculations as to their respective Districts. I think 
it not improbable that my friends from the West, who I have 
no doubt are as honest and disinterested as any men upon 
earth, have calculated the relative operation of the white ba¬ 
sis and compound basis in their section of country,—and if 
they have not, there is a marvellous coincidence of opinion 
amongst them and acting intuitively in the direction their 
own interests would point out. 

If the white basis be adopted, as gentlemen contend it 
should be, in both branches of the State Legislature, and the 
report of the Legislative Committee, recommending that the 


21 


number of Senators should remain at 24, be adopted, then ac¬ 
cording to the supposed population of 1829, 28,4 25 white 
inhabitants will be necessary to intitle a district to a Senator, 
The Accomack Senatorial district would require a considera¬ 
ble addition to give it a sufficiency of white population to in¬ 
title it to a Senator. Having regard to contiguous territory, 
I propose to add the counties of York, Elizabeth City, War¬ 
wick and Essex, and the whole district would then contain 
only 247 white inhabitants more than the number required. 
This district thus enlarged, pays a revenue of $19,491 08, 
while the average which would be paid in each Senatorial dis¬ 
trict West of the Alleghany, would be only $5,27G 60, and 
in the district of Harrison and Monongalia only $3,843 55. 

Although the Accomack district shews a striking inequali¬ 
ty in taxation and representation compared with some other 
districts, yet there is another district in which the inequality is 
much greater. There is a district of country, sir, not 50 miles 
from Richmond in which a Senatorial District composed of 
contiguous counties, (on the basis of white population, and 
the number of Senators heing retained at 24,) would pay 
at the same rate of taxation paid in 1828, within less than 
$ 600 of as much revenue on lands, slaves, horses, carri¬ 
ages and licenses, as the whole country West of the Alle¬ 
ghany Mountains, paid in 1828, on the same articles; that is 
the Chesterfield district. This district is now composed of 
the counties of Chesterfield, Amelia, Powhatan, Nottoway, 
Cumberland and the town of Petersburg. This district now 
contains 24,572 white inhabitants; and in order to bring it up 
to the number, which will be required on the white basis, I 
propose to add the adjoining county of Lunenburg. The 
district would then have within 9 of the number of white in¬ 
habitants required for a Senator; and the revenue paid from 
that district in 1828, amounted to $33,194 80, on the articles 
enumerated above, while the whole country West of the Al- 
| leghany only paid $33,770 14 on the same articles, being aw 
excess of only $575 34. 

By an examination, I have made in the Auditor's office, l 
have ascertained some facts at the result of which I confess 
i was myself astonished. From the examination and calcula¬ 
tions I have made in the Auditor’s office, I think I can make 
it satisfactorily appear to the Convention that the whole coun¬ 
try West of the Blue Ridge, from the Auditor’s Report of 
the taxes on lands, slaves, horses, carriages and licenses, does 
! not contribute one cent to the general revenue of the State for 
general purposes, but on the contrary is largely in arrear; 





22 


that is to say, they do not pay as much revenue as their own 
citizens receive back as members of the Assembly and for 
claims and services which may be considered of a local cha¬ 
racter. The Valley, taken by itself, I admit, pays a large 
surplus; but the country beyond the Alleghany does not pay 
much more than half enough for its own purposes; and by 
adding the two districts together, there appears to be a con¬ 
siderable deficiency. 

The expenses of the General Assembly—Commissioners of 
the Revenue and Clerks for examining Commissioners’ Books 
—Criminal charges and Guards—Contingent expenses of 
Courts—Militia, for Adjutants, Brigade Inspectors, &c.— 
Comparing Polls—Salaries of General Court*Judges and 
Chancellors,—amount, rejecting cents, to about $259,573. 
If this sum be divided amongst the different sections of the 
State, according to counties equally, it will be found that the 
country West of the Blue Ridge receives $97,035, and the 
revenue paid West of the Ridge, (according to the Auditor’s 
Report to the Convention above referred to,) amounts to 
$ 90,732,—being $6,303 less than it receives. In making the 
calculation of the sum received by each section of the State by 
counties, the result is favourable to the West; because their 
members of the Assembly, Judges, and Guards attending 
convicts, receive a great deal more mileage than is received by 
the Eastern half of the State. In making this calculation, 1 
have omitted the salaries of the Governor and Council— 
Judges of the Court of Appeals—Attorney General—Auditor 
and Treasurer and their Clerks—Public Guard at Richmond 
and Lexington too —Contingent fund—and in fact all expen¬ 
ses which can be regarded of a general character. To this 
deficiency of $6,303, add for Lunatic Hospital at Staunton 
$ 7,500, and also add $ 8,374 for the Literary Fund, (being 
the difference between $ 18,968 of the annual appropriation 
of $45,000 for Primary Schools received by the West, ac¬ 
cording to the ratio of white population bv which it is distri¬ 
buted, and $ 10,594 for the amount paid by the West, on the 
supposition that that fund was raised from the different parts 
of the State in the same proportion that the revenue is now 
paid) and we have the sum of $22,177, received every year 
by the country West of the Blue Ridge from the Treasury 
more than they contribute, according to the Auditor’s Report, 
without charging them with any part of the expenses of a ge 
neral character.* 


*The tax on law process was not included in the Auditor's 
Report to the Convention , and is not included in this calcula- 







23 


It the basis of white population be adopted, the country 
West of the Blue Ridge, which is now a charge of 22,000 
dollars annually, for their individual purposes on the rest 
of the State, will have immediately nearly one half of the 
delegates in the State Legislature ; and, after 1835, will 
have a majority of delegates; and will have the power of im¬ 
posing taxes at pleasure on the rest of the State. With these 
facts before us, can it be expected that Eastern Virginia, if 
there was not a slave in the State, could consent to give to their 
fellow citizens of the West the absolute and irresponsible con¬ 
trol of their property. I think not. For myself, I confess 
that I am not willing to do it. 

We are told, Mr. Chairman, by our Western friends, that 
the people of the East should rely on the integrity and hones¬ 
ty of their brethren of the West, and that the restraints of 
conscience will be sufficient to prevent any oppression of their 
Eastern brethren. I have no doubt the people of the West are 
as honest as any people on earth, and a gentleman from that 
country told us a few days ago that they wer epeculiarly honest. 
] know them to be honest, brave and patriotic; but I know they 
are also men , and subject to the infirmities of poor fallen man 
—1 would not trust Aristides himself to tax me, unless he were 
responsible to me for the faithful execution of the trust. It 
was said, by one of the wisest statesmen America ever pro¬ 
duced, that Faith was necessary to salvation hereafter, but in 
this world Jealousy was the best security for the preservation 
of man. I have no fears of private property being endan¬ 
gered from individual rapine.—No sir, not the slightest; but 
I am unwilling to subject property to taxation by agents who 
are not responsible to those who are compelled to pay the taxes. 

This Hall, seems to me, Sir, to be the last place in Ameri¬ 
ca in which this doctrine of political faith ought to be held 
out. This Hall has been repeatedly made the theatre on 

tion. It has since been ascertained that the whole amount of 
the tax on law process paid into the public Treasury from 
the country West of the Blue Ridge in the year 1828, was 
$7,638 61. If this sum be deducted from $22,177, there will 
still be a deficiency of $14,538 39, without taking into the es- 
timate any appropriation for Internal Improvements West of 
the Blue Ridge—The precise amount of deficiency was not 
deemed important; the principal object was to show t what is be¬ 
lieved to be a fact , that the whole country West of the Blue 
Ridge did not pay as much into the Treasury as it received 
back* 







24 


which the ablest men Virginia ever produced, have eloquently 
appealed to their fellow citizens to resist the usurpations of 
tiie General Government in violation of the Constituton of the 
United States. For thirty years, the violations of that Consti¬ 
tution have been the theme of complaint by Virginians. We 
are told that the Constitution has been twice violated by the 
establishment of the Banks of the United States—has been vio¬ 
lated by the Alien and Sedition Laws—and by the whole sys¬ 
tem of Tariff laws for the protection of domestic manufac¬ 
tures. These violations, too, are said to have been commit¬ 
ted by those w ho were bound by the solemn obligation of an 
oath, to support the Constitution. Prudence forbids my in¬ 
quiring, here, whether these complaints be well founded or not; 
it is enough to know that they exist to prevent Virginians 
from trusting to a sense of honour and the restraints of con¬ 
science alone, to prevent men from pursuing their own interests 
when there are no constitutional provisions in the way, and 
when their own discretion is the sole measure of their power. 
What is it that induces one part of the country to support and 
another to oppose the Tariff laws? Is it not probable that in¬ 
terest has something to do with it? There is no doubt of it. 

It has been frequently said in the progress of this debate, 
that the object of Western gentlemen in wishing the white 
basis to be established, was to enable them to obtain the pas¬ 
sage of law’s for the promotion of a system for the Internal 
Improvement of their country. I thought the magnanimity 
and candour of gentlemen would prevent them from denying 
that that was one of their primary objects. What else can be 
their object? Does any gentleman pretend that the security of 
personal rights requires the adoption of this principle? Is it 
mere theoritical perfection they aim at ? or is it not rather some 
practical advantage, which they expect to result from it? I 
had like to have said, is it not self interest, that in some degree 
prompts them ? 

I know , sir, that some of the leading politicians of the West 
have the promotion of Internal Improvement greatly at heart. 

I mention this in no reproachful spirit—it is honourable to 
them—and if they did not wish to improve their country, and 
facilitate the means of intercourse by Roads and Canals— 
they would be unworthy of those salubrious hills and fertile 
vallies with which their delightful region abounds. I am 
myself a friend to Internal Improvement. I consider that 
every road and every canal connecting the East and the 
West, is a strong bond of Union—a Union which, I hope 
may be perpetual. If you make it the interest of men to be 


25 


united, they will be very apt to remain united; and if you 
make it their interest to be separated, nothing but the strong 
arm of power can hold them long together. If I were a 
member of the Legislature, I would grant pecuniary assist¬ 
ance to my Western fellow-citizens, in no grudging spirit, for 
the improvement of their country. But w hile I declare, with 
perfect sincerity, my willingness to aid my fellow-citizens of 
the West in this great work of internal improvement, I want 
those who are to pay the expense to have the power of judg¬ 
ing and deciding ivhen, for what purpose —and to what ex¬ 
tent they will contribute to that object. No one is so compe¬ 
tent to decide upon the ability of a man to pay, as that man 
who is compelled to pay: And no person should have the 
power of deciding how much shall be paid, and for what pur¬ 
poses, except the tax payer himself, or his immediate and re¬ 
sponsible representative—and least of all, should the power 
of imposing the taxes be given to those who are directly in¬ 
terested to make large impositions. 

The gentleman from Brooke (Mr. Doddridge) told us, that 
the masters of slaves in the East, wished their fellow-citizens 
of the West to bow' their necks and become political slaves— 
and that if the amendment proposed by the gentleman from 
Culpeper prevails, the West will forever be subject to the po¬ 
litical power of the East. With due respect to that gentle¬ 
man, I must beg leave to differ from him. If the white po¬ 
pulation of the West continues to increase as rapidly hereaf¬ 
ter as it has done since 1820, and the taxes for each white 
person in the different sections of the State shall be the same 
they now are, then, on the combined basis, in 1856 one half 
of the delegates will be West of the Ridge, and one half East; 
and in 1857, the majority would be West of the Ridge.— 
When the population of the West shall so increase that the 
majority of political pow er shall be West of the Blue Ridge, 
that country will not be near so populous as the Eastern 
country now is. The trans-Alleghany district would then 
have about 17 inhabitants to the square mile, and the Valley 
about 26: and at present the middle country has 28; and the 
old and impoverished tide-water country, 33 to the square mile. 
If other gentlemen are disposed to object to this estimate of 
the future population of the Western sections of this State, 
my friend from Brooke cannot object to it, because, it was in 
that same speech he told us that in thirty years the majority 
would be West of the Alleghany, and the population of the 
East would be to the West but as a “ drop in the bucket .” 

4 




26 


Although, Mr. Chairman, I decidedly prefer the combined 
basis to the white basis of representation, yet I should be willing 
to abandon it in favour of a graduated county plan of repre¬ 
sentation, if such an one can be adopted as will protect those 
who pay the taxes from oppressive burthens. Many of the 
counties of Virginia have been in existence for 200 years, 
and the people have been so long in the habit of forming 
county associations, and having separate representation, that 
no plan could be acceptable to the people, which broke up 
these ancient county boundaries. I would adopt a graduated 
county representation, for the same reason that induced 
George Mason and the other wise men who formed the Con¬ 
stitution of 1776, to depart in the Constitution from the lite¬ 
ral meaning of the Bill of Rights: I would do it, because 
it is best adapted to the situation of Virginia. By this plan, 
the political power of the country will gradually pass to the 
West, as the wealth and taxes of that country increase; and as 
the increasing population of that country shall render the 
formation of new counties necessary in that section of the 
State; while no new counties would be formed to the East. 

I am sorry, Mr. Chairman, that I have detained the Com¬ 
mittee so long at this late hour of the day; I thank the Com¬ 
mittee for their attention, and will conclude with expressing 
the ardent wish that this important question may be so settled 
as will be satisfactory to the whole people of Virginia, and 
will permanently promote their prosperity and happiness. 


27 


A TABULAR STATEMENT, 

Of the White and Slave population in each County of Virgi¬ 
nia, in the year 1829, according to the Auditor’s estimate 
reported to the Convention, in conformity to a resolution of 
the Convention ; and also the whole amount of Revenue Tax 
paid into the public Treasury from each County in the year 
1828, arising on lands, lots, slaves, horses and carriages, 
and licenses to merchants and others, agreeably to the Audi¬ 
tor’s report to the Convention. 


West of the Alleghany. —26 Counties. 


Counties. 


| Whites. | Slaves. 

| Taxes. 

Brooke, 

- 

#p / 

6,759 

218 

$ 1,529 84 

Cabell, 

- 

- 

4,772 

485 

934 77 

Grayson, 

- 

- 

7,407 

415 

739 67 

Greenbrier, - 

- 

- 

7,838 

1,408 

2,214 17 

Giles, - 

- 

- 

4,637 

403 

617 28 

Harrison, 

_ 

- 

12,048 

503 

1,639 13 

Kanawha, 

- 

* 

7,590 

1,527 

1,935 44 

Lee, 

- 

- 

4.909 

475 

796 70 

Lewis, 

- 

- 

5,490 

142 

687 32 

Logan, 

- 

- 

3,303 

155 

295 15 

Mason, 

- 


5,693 

595 

1,092 80 

Monroe, 

_ 

- 

6,997 

593 

1,475 78 

Monongalia, 

- 

- 

14,215 

335 

1,772 16 

Montgomery, 

- 

- 

10,318 

1,836 

2,151 77 

Nicholas. 

- 

- 

3,680 

96 

303 31 

Ohio, - 

- 

_ 

15,588 

274 

3,438 39 

Pocahontas, 

- 

- 

2,618 

248 

521 07 

Preston, 

- 

- 

4,902 

117 

587 10 

Randolph, 

- 

- 

4,372 

234 

614 62 

Russell, 

- 

- 

6,041 

879 

876 06 

Scott, - 

_ 

- 

5,169 

335 

743 23 

Tazewell, 

_ 

- 

4,811 

628 

960 73 

Tyler, - 

- 

- 

3,947 

103 

587 64 

Washington, 

- 

- 

12,699 

2,388 

3,49S 13 

Wood, 

- 

- 

5,444 

693 

1,044 58 

Wythe, 

- 

- 

10,137 

2,093 

2,713 28 



, 

i 

181,384 

17,178 

33,370 14 



















28 


Between the Alleghany and Blue Ridge .—14 Counties. 


Counties. 

Whites. 

Slaves. 

Taxes. 

Alleghany, - 

- 

- 

2,252 

597 

$ 633 12 

Augusta, 

- 

- 

16,138 

4,225 

7,802 21 

Bath, - 

- 

- 

2,904 

1,062 

1,184 84 

Berkely, 

- 

- 

7,910 

1,762 

3,886 99 

Botetourt, 

- 

- 

10,842 

4,106 

4,373 39 

Frederick, * 

- 

- 

17,904 

6,954 

11,011 65 

Hardy, 

- 

- 

5,807 

963 

2,669 11 

Hampshire, - 

- 

- 

9,961 

1,277 

2,802 83 

Jefferson, 

- 

- 

10,357 

4,248 

5,776 15 

Morgan, 

- 

- 

2,498 

154, 

582 39 

Pendleton, 

- 

- 

5,723 

469 

858 40 

Rockingham, 

- 

- 

16,240 

1,973 

5,776 63 

Rockbridge, 

- 

- 

10,085 

3,486 

3,911 37 

Shenandoah, 

- 

- 

19,511 

2,257 

5,692 98 




138,132 

33,533 

56,962 06 













29 


Between the Blue Ridge and the Head of Tide Water .—29 
Counties. 


Counties. 


| Whites. | Slaves. | Taxes. 


Albemarle, - 

- 

- 

9,659 

11,579 

$9,224 39 

Amelia, 

- 

- 

3,097 

7,138 

3,957 43 

Amherst, 

- 

- 

4,866 

5,603 

4,030 88 

Bedford, 

- 

- 

12,067 

, 9,062 

5,606 09 

Brunswick, - 

_ 

- 

3,264 

9,772 

4,893 86 

Buckingham, 

- 

- 

7,142 

10,399 

6,645 84 

Campbell, 

- 

- 

10,362 

9,751 

9,771 29 

Charlotte, 

- 

- 

5,571 

9,225 

5,713 12 

Culpeper, 

- 

- 

11,166 

9,226 

6,585 71 

Cumberland, 

- 

- 

4,091 

7,109 

4,206 14 

Dinwiddie, 

- 

- 

5,568 

6,724 

4,383 36 

Fluvanna, 

- 

- 

3,839 

3,550 

2,794 43 

Fauquier, 

- 

- 

13,226 

11,301 

8,317 15 

Franklin, 

- 

- 

9,864 

4,708 

2,952 49 

Goochland, - 

- 

- 

3,610 

8,302 

4,315 60 

Halifax, 

- 

- 

9,355 

11,276 

8,144 09 

Henry, 

- 

- 

4,284 

2,807 

1,710 49 

Loudoun, 

- 

- 

12,990 

5,490 

10,507 29 

Louisa, 

- 

- 

6,634 

8,951 

5,120 47 

Lunenburg, - 

- 

- 

3,844 

6,696 

3,405 62 

Madison, 

- 

- 

3,812 

4,730 

2,799 26 

Mecklenburg, 

- 

- 

7,815 

11,416 

6,487 47 

Nelson, 

- 

- 

4,955 

5,996 

3,674 27 

Nottoway, 

- 

- 

2,436 

6,600 

3,572 11 

Orange, 

- 

- 

6,907 

7,865 

4,903 38 

Patrick, 

- 

- 

4,867 

1,566 

1,065 16 

Pittsylvania, 

- 

- 

14,021 

10,263 

6,778 99 

Powhatan, 

- 

- 

2,998 

5,568 

3,666 40 

Prince Edward, 

- 

- 

4,912 

8,659 

5,032 38 




197,222 

1221,332 

150,265 16 


















so 


Below the Head of Tide-Water .—36 Counties and 4 towns 
intitled to Representation . 


Counties and Towns , 

| Whites, 

| Slaves . 

Taxes, 

Accomack, 

- 

- 

9,453 

! 4,04C 

) $4,413 96 

Charles City, 

- 

- 

1,659 

i 2,503 

1 1,865 76 

Caroline, 

- 

- 

7,605 

' 11,198 

: . 6,185 00 

Chesterfield, 

- 

- 

8,853 

i 10,462 

: 6,964 56 

Essex, 


- 

4,221 

6,284 

3,294 43 

Elizabeth City, 

- 

- 

2,200 

1,585 

1,681 90 

Fairfax, 

- 

- 

5,431 

3,437 

3 ; 944 83 

Greensville, - 

- 

- 

2,182 

4,561 

2,544 77 

Gloucester, - 

- 

- 

4,133 

5,365 

3,041 52 

Hanover, 

- 

- 

6,481 

8,775 

* 5,694 37 

Henrico, 

- 

- 

4,781 

5,527 

21,013 83 

Jsle of Wight, 

- 

- 

4,243 

4,521 

2,861 49 

James City, - 

- 

- 

800 

1,708 

S85 15 

King George, 

- 

- 

2,195 

3,595 

2,234 66 

King & Queen, 

- 

- 

6,121 

5,952 

3,271 42 

King William, 

- 

- 

3,389 

5,930 

3,300 60 

Lancaster, 

- 

- 

2,316 

2,792 

1,439 64 

Matthews, 

- 

- 

4,120 

3,425 

1,691 06 

Middlesex, 

- 

- 

1,916 

2,057 

1,052 82 

Nansemond, 

- 

- 

5,013 

4,361 

3,469 59 

Norfolk, 

- 

- 

9,059 

5,833 

5,528 05 

New Kent, 

- 

- 

2,246 

3,391 

1,898 17 

Northumberland, 

- 

- 

4,858 

3,215 

1,882 12 

Northampton, 

- 

- 

2,603 

3,691 

2,604 94 

Princess Anne, 

- 

- 

5,382 

3,949 

2,399 75 

Prince George, 

- 

- 

2,687 

4,383 

2,754 92 

Prince William, 

- 

- 

5,286 

3,554 

3,436 08 

Richmond, 

- 

- 

3,034 

3,022 

1,663 65 

Southampton, 

- 

- 

6,205 

6,822 

4,203 55 

Spottsylvania, 

- 

- 

6,495 

8,116 

6,574 32 

Surry, 

- 

- 

2,277 

3,387 

2,027 81 

Sussex, 

- 

- 

4,212 

7,482 

3,734 48 

Stafford, 

- 

- 

4,459 

3,724. 

3,015 17 

Warwick, 

- 

- 

688 

1,043 

526 74 

Westmoreland, 

- 

- 

3,065 

3,474 

2,171 17 

York, - 

- 

- 

1,247 

2,197 

1,183 73 

Norfolk Borough, 

- 

- 

4,618 

3,261 

9,645 11 

Petersburg, - 

- 

- 

3,097 

2,428 

7,482 52 

Richmond City,* 

- 

- 

6,445 

4,387 


Williamsburg, 

- 

- 

448 

814 

848 50 

* Amount paid in 

the TreasuA 

165,523 

176,251 

144,432 14 

ry, included in Henrico, 


-- 




n f&'F) t 

^ rf k 


















31 


RECAPITULATION. 


West of the Alleghany, 
Between the Blue Ridge 
and Alleghany, 
Between the Blue Ridge 
and the head of Tide 
Water, 

Below the head of Tide 
W ater, 


Whites. 

Slaves. 

Taxes 


181,384 

17,178 

$33,770 

14 

138,132 

33,533 

56,962 

06 

197,222 

221,332 

150,265 

16 

165,523 

176,251 

144,432 

14 


682,261 448,294 385,429 50 


lafi 

























i 


t 

I 

I 




i 


i 


: 

t 


















t 











































* V* 


vv. 



v t ^ aV 

°o ^Jo A* •‘^^^^ , ** <^p ♦ 

<+ *?Y. •* Jr <*, '• • * * A 

0 " • * <% 0^ t T ^ ^ c o - 0 - <*>■ 




«> *y 




^ O* 

^ *o,o 

®- > V * * !nL'* C\ -0’ - * • ° 

<& <v. ^ *■ 

* 

</» v • 

■/ 0? %. • 

% *••"*• ^ <, •'T'.’i* .0’ 

C 0 ' «V^. °o .** ^ c - . 

.< •*■„ 1^ A» , v§te'> „< 



^o< 


4 0_ 
<}? *<» 




>* 





o xP ^ 

** ^ “>*> * '7LAA/IUHr A k' 

o ■%. a> 

y .. ~ *> v * * v* 

V *> & S'*** 

‘ ■*. 

A <L V 4* • 

A 6 >5 

• ^ 0 V . • L V* * O 

0 ,‘^Kfe. % j . 

'»L. *'»’ 



cv 


*5©* 



o V 

• 0 % ‘Wf,< a> o Q 

<> • / t 0, •» - “ A ' 

0* *!,•«£' > v % »^L% CV sy •*••- 

W' A”. -Jfe: ' ' ' 

- 'singp?' ® A*+ ° YVWVV? * ** ’ 

*■ * 5k- 4i'L.* L » A. ^ o V^«OJ“ * A- A, * 

_!,,,_. * d," 4* * <S ^ y "tf* *i 

0 0 " * ♦ 0^ •*•'*♦ 'o \Q 0 ° * 9 * *<£ 

4^ . ’^SSaW^** Vv» C Saefr??A^ * o j'O’ •«x5^v^. # ‘ ^ 


sV* V > V 











. 0 * 




• A .tr 

• mss' tl' 

^ ?W‘ v ^ 'J 

o '...« <v <* ‘-T7T‘ ■ A' 1 

* °o A, 

* ^ <N •> <fsNS\\Tl'^'' *5»V V * 

: :«•. ' 

° 4- 0 ^ V<ii5?, # <5°* i?v, ”■ 

• * ° ^° \, ••'* A* ®j. '•••" / t? -., 


5 « 0 


♦ T', 



A^ V 0 0 “ 0 -» ^ 

^ W’ * *P 


/ «.r o # >*<S§^V o 

A. V ** Tj. V*» *■ 

■ -* fcjfflKS* * ^ & * - 




* A V ^ - 

* a v r*. • 

4 ’-> v' »T&W % a. 

* A S' * 1 a v 

\. ^* > ' » • * «U ^ 

A ^ . ‘ 

Jp < r , * 


°. *u* 

*“ °o 

’ -«T. 7 * A 



<W 


.4 3* 


/ * 0v ^ V 

° - ° c f °° ^ ^ ^ 

aO **•«- %> v c\ *- 

•> *mO)i o Sli3& • ^u> <& 

'j' v Vv ° ** 

v *$**. • * a^> v C^ °. - * . ^ «$» 

v -3®r» av ^ ^ <** 

<V 'TV** *(y ^> A <, ^TT.* A 

\o " • ^ <S>. qv ,»•'** o A - o 0 * ° ♦ 

» -x C **’Sl??^j" ° 4 •cSSS^K^- 

^o-* 




<i5 0 x> 

,♦ A <\ % 

✓ ' ’ ■ <? %■ * 

°-, v v % . vL'v,'. «■, 



0 i 



vP 


V« 


*<A 

^ ° ® V vp o • a 

^ o *v ^«S \n 4 xv V. • 4a7^ttfflprv^ 4 0 t// >5 5 \ vr ^ A y 

4* » ^ ^ % 4 / &■ • V G^' r 4 

*u ■ '• • * * A <, -'TVi* .6^ \9, -•.. * A 

W# * "o ' 1 < i r t 0 "®* (V* , v »«. ■ r ° “ 

* o •rfJ5Sw'. %- C 0 j - * • 



o V 



r\ -i*. O »> 

DOBBS BROS. ^ *•,-.• 0^ **-o 

LIBRARY BINDING \ V 

®- > v % o 



o V 



•iOC-T 7 9'A”. •; 


ST. AUGUSTINE 



^^32084 .* 0 



.• , ^° ^ • 

•‘ *° %*•- 
'•rv ty »>V/k e ' ' 5 ^ 


♦ % 



r.« s , 0 ' 











